Tuesday, May 4, 2010

Bottom Floor Bathroom Project

Okay so when last we left off we talked about coming projects on the house. The main project we'd like to focus on is turning this room into a finished fabulous bathroom.

I'd like to restate that we already have permits to finish this bathroom.

Crammed full of crap which is our way...You can see that I've done the initial framing for the bath with backers for towel bars- grab bars.

One issue that I didn't think of at the time is what to do about this siding. I would like to carefully remove it and install the earthquake shear panels in this area. As you can see there are several soil stacks in the way that will have to be removed for access. Also the closest window is pretty rotted away to nothing and I've bought a replacement for it.

But, how to remove the siding without destroying it?!?!!? Any ideas? Then how do I strip the siding back to bare wood (safely and effectively as there is lead paint there for sure) and reinstall it?
I want to install house wrap and flash the window openings with peel and stick flashing. There also is a question on how far I should strip the siding. Should I do this entire side then I can flash that far window also. Unfortunately that far away soil stack is the one most used on the house as it connect the only working bathroom to the sewer main....that's gotta stay attached and working as much as possible.

That nearest soil stack shoots way up to the third floor. This stack is not being used at all so I think it makes sense just to remove it entirely and replace it with modern no-hub cast iron when we get to redoing the upper bath.

Check out what looks like an old boarded up window and the lame t-111 siding in this pic. More evidence that this back part of the house was probably a porch at one time.

Another shot of the weird old patch job and old window. It might be fun to put a window back in but the city won't allow it because the house is too close to the property line on this side for any additional windows. I don't honestly think I noticed this when we bought the house...

Here's the bathroom window with no header, and no weights that we want to replace.

Here's the fancy-cool new marvin ultrex window I bought to replace the rotted original....only problem is, is that for some reason I bought a replacement window that is several inches bigger in both dimensions! I'm not sure why in the heck I did that...I'm also not sure now if it'll work...

When I do get to replacing the window I'll have to reframe the opening and add an actual header like these we did on the other side of the house.

Along one wall of the bathroom half the height of the wall is foundation. We're not sure what we are going to do along this wall. One idea is to tile it as a wainscot and continue the tile around the room. Since we are planning on tiling the room in an antique tile style this idea should work out nicely. Irene has a tile plan worked out for the bathroom I believe.

Astute readers will notice that the sole plates in the bathroom are not pressure treated lumber. When building on concrete using regular lumber is generally a no no. I applied a water proofing membrane to the bottom of the sole plate which should be okay with the inspector but I need to check. If not he'll probably make me pull this up and redo it...which would mean basically redo the framing for the bathroom entirely!

The shower area is going to be the biggest puzzle to figure out. We're not doing a bath just a stand-up shower. The dimensions for the shower are 3by5' with the shower head probably coming out of the ceiling and the shower controls near the door to the shower which will be the 3' side nearest the door. Ya a diagram would help but the computer that has all those plans on it died on me and I haven't gotten it back from the shop yet.
The fun and exciting things about this are that I get to pour a mud bed-why not just concrete? and slope it correctly and form a curb.

Here is a picture of the type of drain that I was hoping to use. Its from a company called quickdrain and they are newish to the U.S. Using this drain I can do a simple slope towards the drain, not a fancy 4 way slope you have to do with a standard center drain. One problem is that I thought this company had a rear discharge model...which I can see nicely hooking up to the drain line in the above picture. With how the drain line is above slab I don't know how I'm going to get a standard bottom discharge drain to work unless I have a very thick mud bed. Also, I'm not sure if these drains are approved for use in Alameda... I could be looking at a pretty serious step up into the shower if I don't plan this right. When I'm old I don't want to have to take a giant step over the shower curb and into the shower...

Here's a shot from the quickdrain website that's very close to what we want to do. Except that the solid wall on the right will actually be a door.

Another interesting mystery to be solved is how to water proof the shower enclosure on the two walls. The quickdrain comes bonded to a nobel seal TS water proofing material flange. The nobel seal TS is interesting as it fully water proofs the floors,walls etc. Using this product I can just use regular plywood for the walls and the tile is thin-setted to the nobel seal. Seems interesting and much more likely to be a whole lot more waterproof than cement backer board with felt tacked up underneath it. Water is the enemy of old houses so what ever I can do to avoid it getting where it shouldn't I try to do.
I also need to figure out the plumbing but that'll be for a later post I think.


Gene said...

Removing old wooden siding intact is challenging. When I built the addition, I tried to save as much of the original siding as possible, in no small part because I couldn't find any place that still sells an equivalent profile (1x12 v-rustic; the largest I was able to find w/o custom milling was 1x10). I sided the addition with the 1x10, but I needed some 1x12 for filling the gap where the front door used to be. The older and drier the siding is, and the wider each board is, the harder it will be to get off intact (the old 1x6 came off much easier than the 1x12)

Some tips for removing the siding and preserving as much as possible:
- start at the top and work down
- be prepared to sacrifice the first board
- work your way across each stud, loosening the nail a little on each using a flatbar
- don't try to pound the nails out, use a pair of diagonal cutters (aka dikes) to clip them off from the back
- if you can't save the whole board, you can cut off part of it and just use that

If necessary, you can use a cat's paw and dig out the nails then patch the holes later, but that's obviously less ideal. Given my needs (and reluctance to pay for custom milling) I went that route for some of the boards.

The MadScientist said...

I bet we have the same 1by12 siding though I don't know what its officially called. I just call it clap-board. A local archetect told me that there is 'a lumber yard in San Leandro that carries all the moldings you need for an old Alameda house.' Course I lost the name of it...
My siding is nailed thru the tounge with old square cut nails was your's the same?
The super dry wood is a good point...maybe spray the back of the siding with some kind of oil?
I was thinking of working from the back side and gently taping the boards loose and then using a looong sawzall blade scooched up in there to cut the nails from the back side? Then once the boards are free we could pound the nails out from the back side? Still gotta figure out a safe way to strip them though...

Gene said...

If you have access from the backside, that'll help. You can get things started by tapping out on a block held up against the back side next to one of the studs. A long sawzall blade then works from the front.

Your siding looks narrower than ours -- that was wide enough that there were 3 nails (not old enough to be square; circa 1948) per stud in the 1x12. Whether they'd buried them with filler or it was just so many layers of paint, I found that pounding them out tended to break the surface of the wood. Your set up sounds a bit different, so you may have better luck.

The MadScientist said...

Gene, I'm also wondering if it would be helpful to spray the back of the boards with a penetrating oil like Tung oil or something like that? If I could spray the oil with a garden sprayer it wouldn't be to much of a PITA...this might really help with the splitting maybe?

Gene said...

No idea. But it couldn't hurt to try if you do have problems with splitting.

Jessamyn said...

My husband is in a wheelchair and we (and a contractor) created a new bathroom in our old house. Shaping the pan to the center really isn't that bad, it's just fiddly. I do strongly recommend a membrane system.

I really believe in curbless showers. That curb is unnecessary if you do the pan right, and it's at best something to whack your ankles on and at worst a true hazard if you're old or infirm.

Our shower is a straight roll-in - the 3/4" vitreous floor tile just continues right into the shower. We have a hospital-style ceiling-mounted track curtain to help contain the handsprayer my husband uses, but it's a large shower and I don't even need to pull the curtain when I shower, the drain works so well on its own.

The MadScientist said...

Hi Jessamyn,
I'm not in love with a curb. But, because of the plumbing being above the level of the floor I will have to at least have the shower be on a platform thats a short step up. So there is no way to do a curbless shower in the respect that you could just roll in, in a wheelchair...

trade plumbing supplies said...

Excellent work here. To prevent clogging in the shower, don’t dump chemicals such as paint thinner or materials like hot wax down your drains.